Minutes of the 15 September 1996 Meeting

[Note: These submissions appear on the Feb 97 LoAR]

Notes and Announcements

The regular monthly chapter of the Caidan College of Heralds took place on 15 September 1996. In attendance were: Albyn Buckthorne, Manus le Dragonier, Madawc Seamus Caradawg, Ghislaine d'Auxerre, Nigel the Byzantine, Tonwen ferch Gruffudd Aur, Hrorek Halfdane of Faulconwood, Nicollette Caramelle Avelaine, Earnan Caomhanach, Gautier Langelier of Addershold, Judwiga Czarny Jagello, Christopher Thomas, Eridana Aubra Dragotta, Catherine Adrienne de Steele, Damien of Baden, Sean Vuibhearn, Umberto Lodovico Scolari, Rhieinwen Cyfarwydd ferch Angharad, Bruce Draconarius of Mistholme, and Christopher Leyland D'Eyncourt.

The LoAR from Laurel has not been officially received, but Crescent had received some LoAR topics early via electronic mail for discussion.

Crescent reminded people to put money in the soda contribution can when we take sodas out of the college fridge.

Dates for future heraldry meetings are listed in the NOTES section of the Crown Prints. Dolphin is already taking proposals for heraldic classes for the Spring Collegium. The second printing of the first edition of the Herald's Handbook will be on sale at Fall Collegium.

Crescent went over some administrative situations (ie. who contacts whom regarding submissions, etc.) In particular, this is a reminder that territorial heralds are responsible for nofiying submitters of the results of the kingdom meetings; Laurel has recently announced a requirement that submitters be notified in writing of returns at the kingdom level, among other things.

Corrections

Cerdic Whitewynde of Wessex (Resub [Caid] device)

Ermine, a cross patonce purpure.

Name:

Registered by Laurel February, 1992

Device:

Contrary to what was recorded in the August 1996 minutes, this device is returned for conflict with the badge of Donata Ivanovna Basistova (Mar 93 West): (Fieldless) A cross swallowtailed purpure. There is a CD for the field, but there is not a clear difference between a cross swallowtailed and and a cross patonce.

BADGE RETURNED FOR CONFLICT.

Ciarán Dúin Rúiadh (Resub [Laurel] name, Resub [Caid] device)

Per bend vert and argent, a stag salient and a shamrock counterchanged.

Device:

This item was blazoned in the August 1996 minutes as Per bend vert and argent, a shamrock and a stag salient counterchanged, which reverses the position of the two charges.

DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Altavia, Barony of

Gertrud von Würzburg (Resub [Caid] name, Resub [Caid] device)

Argent, a cross bottony gules between three trees erased proper.

Name:

The submitter's previous submission of Feb. 1996, Gudelig Grünewald von Würzburg, was returned in kingdom for lack of documentation

Gertrud is the name of a saint who lived in Würzburg from 626 to 659 according to an information flyer for the church of this saint. On [Socin, 1966, p. 53] under Gerdrudis there are the forms Gerdruda, Gertrudis, Gertruda, Gerdrut (dated 1282), Gerdruth, Gerdrud, Gertruit, from which we can justify the variation Gertrud. We could not find the form Gertraud which the submitter originally submitted--it is found in the submitter's documentation, but the dating for this variation is suspect.

Würzburg was created a bishopric in 741 according to [Seltzer, 1952, p. 2108].

Device:

On [Papworth and Morant, 1977, p. 604], there are Arg. a cross botony gu. for Brereghly, Brerlegh, Breloghe, Bryerlegh, Holm and Holme, and Arg. a cross croslet gu. for Thomas Brereleigh, Brierley, Brightley, Brightly, Crossley of Crossley Hall, Dunning, Herward, Hirward and Hirwarde. We believe that none of these persons are sufficiently important to be protected according to the Modest Proposal.

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Mahmood al-Taifi (New device)

Argent, an elephant rampant sable holding in its trunk a coronet gules.

Name:

Registered by Laurel (in Calontir), Oct. 1990

Device:

His Excellency is a Count of Calontir.

We did find this in conflict with Arg. an elephant pass. sa. for "Sutcliffe, co. Lancaster; from the Low Countries. John Sutcliffe, Groom of the Bedchamber to Charles I. Matthew Sutcliffe, Dean of Exeter" (from [Papworth and Morant, 1977, p. 60]), though we do not consider these personages sufficiently important to be protected according to the Modest Proposal.

DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Petronia of Kent (New name)

Name:

Petronia is found on [Morlet, 1968, p. 89]. The submitter says that Frankish names did appear in Kent. For example, Bertha and Emma are documented on [Woolf, 1936, p. 33].

Kent is found on [Seltzer, 1952, p. 929]. It is noted as being found in the Saxon culture.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Order of St. Oswald, for Damien von Baden (New household name)

Name:

St. Oswald was a saint who was king of Northumbria, killed in 642-the submitter cites on p. 343 of The Saints: A Concise Biographical Dictionary, edited by John Coulson, and the entry under this spelling on [Farmer, 1987, pp. 328-9] agrees.

We cannot find a precedent which prohibits the registration of an order to an individual, while we do have examples (albeit relatively old) where Laurel did allow this previously (the Order of St. Gunther, for Cameron of Caladoon, Oct. 1981).

HOUSEHOLD NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Angels, Barony of

Li, Kuang-Ch'i (New name, New device)

Sable, a crane statant, wings displayed and on a chief argent a leopard gules.

Name:

Kuang is found on p. 174 of Chinese Jews by William C. White.

Ch'i is also found on p. 174 of Chinese Jews.

Li is a Chinese surname found on p. 182 of this same source.

Device:

As a note to the College, the definition of a "leopard" is a lion passant guardant. No conflict found.

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Calafia, Barony of

Phelan Kell (New name, New device, New badge)

DEVICE: Argent, a wolf statant sable, a chief checky sable and argent, chause' azure for device.

BADGE: [Fieldless] a lion's jamb palewise erased sable, grasping a key bendwise sinister, ward to chief, Or for badge.

Name:

Phelan is found on [O Corrain and Maguire, 1981, pp. 92-93]under the header FAELAN. It is actually cited as OPhelan being derived from Faelan.

Kell is found on [MacLysaght, 1985, p. 174] under the header KELLS.

Device:

We accept the submitter's documentation for the periodness of the style of the chief. It is noted that this is a period treatment of the field, it is just being applied to a charge at this time. No conflict found.

Badge:

No conflict found.

NAME, DEVICE AND BADGE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Seonaid O Seachnasaigh (New name, New device)

Chequey argent and sable, on a pale gules a quill pen argent.

Name:

We could not document Seonaid except from suspect sources.

O Seachnasaigh was the family name of the chiefs of Cinel Aodha in the 13th century according to [Woulfe, 1967, pp. 640-1] under this spelling in Gaelic.

The combination of early forms of the names with the modern patronymic introduces changes which are too drastic to allow us to forward the submission without further consultation with the submitter. We have a set of suggestions which we have asked the consulting herald to take back to the submitter.

Device:

This is in conflict with Mascully sable and Or, on a pale gules, a quill Or (SCA-Nikolas Alexander Blackmoore of Aylesbury Tor, Feb. 1985).

NAME RETURNED FOR STYLE
DEVICE RETURNED FOR CONFLICT

Cloudy River, Shire of

Cloudy River, Shire of (administrative territorial name appeal Laurel)

Name:

The name was returned by Laurel (1/96) for non-period combination of words.

APPEAL APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Arthur of Anchoridge (Resub [Caid] device)

Vert, on a chevron Or two arrows, points to center, gules and a chief Or.

Name:

Returned by Laurel Sept. 1996

Device:

The original device submitted was returned at kingdom (4/96) for conflict with the arms of Theodore the Emerald (SCA 1/73), Vert, on a chevron Or three brilliant cut emeralds seen from above proper. There was only one CD for the change of type and tincture of the tertiaries; the addition of the chief provides the second CD. We feel this device resubmission is clear of the arms of Shane Fitzedward (SCA 5/89), Vert, a chevron, on a chief Or, a baton and a kris in saltire sable. This falls under the ruling of simple armory. In this instance, he has removed a set of tertiaries from the peripheral charge and has added a set of tertiaries to the primary charge.

However, since Laurel returned the name Arthur of Anchoridge at her September meeting, we must return this for lack of name.

RETURNED FOR LACK OF NAME

Darach, Shire of

Umberto Lodovico Scolari (New device)

Per chevron vert and azure, a Da Vinci bicycle and an open book argent.

Name:

Registered by Laurel, Feb. 1996

Device:

The submitter provides documentation showing a drawing of a bicycle in Leonardo Da Vinci's Codex Atlanticus, and its explanation is found on pp. 154-65 of Leonardo the Scientist. The submitter's drawing is a close reproduction of the depiction on Da Vinci's drawings.

DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Steinsee, Canton of (Dreiburgen)

Earnán Caomhánach (new name)

Name:

Earnán is found on [O Corrain and Maguire, 1981, p. 89] under the header Ernan.

Caomhánach is found in [Woulfe, 1967] on p. 234 under the header CAOMANAC.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Dun Or, Barony of

Antek Ignatovich (device appeal Laurel)

Azure, a patriarchal cross with demi-cross beam issuant to sinister, within a bordure embattled argent.

Name:

Registered by Laurel, Jan. 1996

Device:

His identical submission was returned by Laurel in July 1996 for not fitting "the documented examples of hausmarken, because of the embattled bordure."

To quote the submitter's appeal:

The submitter wishes to resubmit this is as a Polish coat of arms. He does not much care if the armory is considered an example of Polish heraldry, or as a Hausmark; the latter was chosen mostly because it seemed a straightforward way to describe and blazon the primary charge.

Polish armory includes many examples of cipher-like or rune-like charges, as seen on pp. 125-6 in von Volborth's Heraldry: Customs, Rules and Styles; or in Ksiazat Polskiego Heraldika by Stefan Laskowski, in the 1989 Caidan Symposium Proceedings, p. 41. The current submission, indeed, is very close to the arms of Pilawa, emblazoned in von Volborth, fig. 769, and blazoned by Riestap as D'azura une croix alesee de trois traverses d'argent,a laquelle manque le bras inferieura dextre (Azure, a cross couped of three crossbars argent, of which is missing the lower dexter arm).

These are period arms, found in a collection of Polish armory, Herby Rycerstwa Polskiego, 1584, [Paprockiego, 1858] so the design is quite period.

Although Polish cipher-arms originally had no blazons, by the end of period they were in frequent company with the heraldry of Western Europe, who were forced to find blazons for them. Examples of Polish arms are seen, for instance, in the roll of arms of the Order of the Golden Fleece (the European Armorial); and certainly, when Henri of Valois was elected King of Poland in 1573, there was ample opportunity for mixing French and Polish armory! (Henri's own arms were a marshalling of French and Polish arms, the exact form of marshalling dictated by whether he was in France or Poland.) This continued well past period--Menestrier's Veritable Art du Blason, 1671, gives French blazons for a number of Polish cipher-arms--and continues to this day. Thus there is ample precedent for blazon Polish armory in Wester (sic) European heraldic terms.

Finally, given the continual presence of Polish personages in Western Europe, and of Western Europeans in Poland, in the last two centuries of our period, I don't think the doubts of registerability expressed for Hausmarken can be legitimately applied to Polish armory. Polish armory meets all the requirements for registration--blazonable, pre-1600 European armory--and should be registered.

We recommend that Antek's submission be blazoned Azure, a patriarchal cross with demi-cross beam issuan[t] to sinister, within a bordure embattled argent, or a blazon more closely analogous to Pilawa may be used.

An additional argument for Antek Ignatovich: re: use of bordures in Polish armory.

We have found no period examples of original Polish armory using bordures. However, we have three arguments to support their use in this case. First, we have an example of Hausmarken armory with a bordure: [von Volborth, 1981, figure 699] shows the arms of Scheltner, consisting of a sable Hausmark within a bordure, on an Or field. Hausmark armory and Polish cipher-armory are similar enough in concept that the same standards should apply; the use of a bordure in one suggests that it should be acceptable in the other.

Second, we note that Polish armory was becoming increasingly "Westernized" in the 16th Century, and incorporated many Western forms of differencing and display. From the reigns of Henri de Valois, and his successor Stefan Bathory, we have examples of Polish armory quartered, impaled, and with inescutcheons of pretense. It is reasonable that brisures should likewise have been incorporated in Polish armory, particularly in Polish arms used outside Poland.

Third, in modern usage at least, Western armigers of Polish ancestry would use their "base" cipher arms differenced by a bordure. The prime example would be Dr. Conrad Swann, former Garter King of Arms, whose arms incorporate a Polish cipher design within a bordure compony; it may be found in the color plates of [Friar, 1987].

At the very least, then, the use of a bordure in Polish armory must be considered compatible with period usages, and certainly with the eclectic armorial practices of the Society. We do not see the use of a bordure in Antek's submission as a bar to registration.

DEVICE APPEAL APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Zethera the Elusive (New name)

Name:

Zethar is the name of a chamberlain of a king of Persia found in the Holy Bible, Esther, chapter 1, verse 10. The submitter provides (from a WWW page) an example of conversion of a masculine Arabic name to feminine by the addition of an "-a," though we cannot say if this is a period practice. The change from Zethar to Zethera (converting the 'a' to an 'e') was unexplained, and we will suggest to the submitter that she not make the change and submit Zethara.

Elusive is not a period word as far as we can tell (in the sense of "that which escapes pursuit" as opposed to "that which baffles or deludes")-the earliest citation in the OED is 1719 ([Oxford University, 1971, p. 847])-nor can we find examples of "name the past participle" as a descriptor (e.g., "John the Travelled" as opposed to "John the Traveller"), especially for Persian names.

NAME RETURNED FOR STYLE

Gyldenholt, Barony of

Arianna ny Shane (Resub [Caid] device)

Per chevron azure and vert, two unicorns rampant and a pegasus passant, a bordure embattled argent.

Name:

Registered by Laurel, Apr. 1996

Device:

Her previous submission of (date?) was identical with the omission of the bordure and thus was returned for conflict. The addition of the bordure clears the current submission of that conflict. Because the bordure and its embattlements in the original emblazoning were drawn too small (to the point where Laurel might return it), we have redrawn them, though we have forwarded to Laurel some of the original forms as well.

DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Ghislaine d'Auxerre (Resub [Caid] badge)

(Fieldless) a fox rampant contourney sable estencely and marked argent ravishing a goose argent.

Name:

Registered with Laurel, Apr. 1992

Badge:

Her previous submission of July, 1996, (Fieldless) a fox rampant contourney sable marked argent ravishing a goose argent, was withdrawn at the submitter's request. It was previously returned by Laurel in Apr. 1996 for conflict with Or, a wolf salient to sinister sable maintaining a rose gules barbed and seeded proper (SCA-Conrad Stronghand, ? 1980). The addition of the estencely gives her current submission an additional CD from the earlier conflict.

Upon approval by Laurel of this badge, she wishes to transfer a joint badge Per chevron azure and vert, two compass stars argent and a bear passant contourney Or, (March 1994) which she shares with James Andrew MacAllister, to that individual.

BADGE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Rowen Killian (New name, New badge)

(Fieldless) a demi-flamberge inverted argent hilted sable, handled of a lit candle argent, within and issuant from the base of a serpent involved deosil sable marked argent.

Name:

Rowen is found on [O Corrain and Maguire, 1981, p. 157] under the header RUADAN. The book cites Rowan as a variant spelling. We feel Rowen would also be an acceptable variant.

Killian is found in [Woulfe, 1967] on p. 102 as the anglicization of OCillin or OCilleain.

Badge:

While Crescent doubts that there is really any blazon that could work in this case, any marking of an animal can be left up to the submitter as an artistic variant as it is not a bar against registerability. Also, we note that the fact that the blade is handled by a candle does not seem to be a period representation of a sword hilt. We would like to note a possible conflict with the badge of Bran Trefonin (SCA 11/91), (Fieldless) an annulet sable surmounted by a sword inverted argent.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
BADGE PASSED ON WITH TREPIDATION

Heatherwyne, Shire of

Karol Gartenheit (Resub [Caid] badge)

Azure, a daffodil Or.

Name:

Registered by Laurel, Nov. 1989

Badge:

This is in conflict with Sable, a lily blossom Or (SCA-Barony of Wintersgate for the Order of the Gilded Lily, Nov. 1982) and with Azure, a chysanthemum slipped and leaved Or (SCA-Christine the Accursed, June 1973).

BADGE RETURNED FOR CONFLICT

Wintermist, Shire of

Jeanne Alwyn (Resub [Laurel] name, Resub [Caid] device)

Azure, a raven close argent.

Name:

Laurel originally returned the name (6/96) for the mixture of Gaelic and English orthography in a non-period fashion.

Jeanne is found on [Dauzat, 1987, p. 343] under the header JEAN as the feminine form.

Alwyn is found on [Black, 1946, p. 21].

Device:

Kingdom returned the previous device, Argent, a dragon rampant to sinister azure (1/96) for conflict with the arms of Patrice of the Misty Fjords (SCA 1/95), Argent, a wyvern erect contourny azure grasping by the blade a sword inverted sable, a bordure azure. There is only one CD for the bordure. This device, unfortunately, conflicts with the arms of Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn (SCA), Per chevron argent and vert, in base a falcon close argent. There is one CD for the field.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
DEVICE RETURNED FOR CONFLICT

The minutes of this chapter were massaged by Moucheture after the usual suspects typed them and before Crescent further mangled them.

In Service to Caid

Eirikr Mjoksiglandi Sigurdarson
Crescent Principal Herald

References

Black, G. F. (1946). The Surnames of Scotland: Their Origin, Meaning, and History. New York Public Library, New York, 1989 reprint edition.

Dauzat, A. (1987). Dictionnaire Etymologique des Noms de Famille et des Prenoms de France. Larousse, Paris. Reviewed and augmented by Marie-Therese Morlet.

Farmer, D. H. (1987). The Oxford Dictionary of Saints. Oxford University Press, Oxford, 2nd edition.

Friar, S. (1987). New Dictionary of Heraldry. Alphabooks.

ibn Auda, D. (1995). Rules for Submissions of the College of Arms of the Society for Creative Anachronism. Society for Creative Anachronism, Milpitas, California. With updates as published in Laurel Letters.

Iulstan Sigewealding (Stephen R. Goldschmidt), editor (1995). An Ordinary of Arms of the Society for Creative Anachronism. Free Trumpet Press, 877 San Lucas Avenue, Mountain View, California, fifth edition. With semi-annual updates and an electronic edition.

MacLysaght, E. (1985). The Surnames of Ireland. Irish Academic Press, Dublin, sixth edition.

Morlet, M.-T. (1968). Les noms de Personne sur le Territoire de l'Ancienne Gaule du VIe au XIIe Siecle. Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique, Paris. 2 Vols.

O Corrain, D. and Maguire, F. (1981). Gaelic Personal Names. The Academy Press, Dublin.

Oxford University, editor (1971). The Compact Edition of the Oxford English Dictionary. Oxford University Press, Oxford.

Paprockiego, B. (1858). Herby Rycerstwa Polskiego. Nakladem Wydawnictwa Biblioteki Polskiej, Krakow. Apparently edited by Kazimierza Jozefa Turowskiego.

Papworth, J. W. and Morant, A. W. (1977). An Alphabetical Dictionary of Coats of Arms belonging to Families in Great Britain and Ireland; Forming an Extensive Ordinary of British Armorials. Five Barrows, Bath. Reproduced from the 1874 edition originally published by T. Richards of London.

Seltzer, L. E., editor (1952). The Columbia Lippincott Gazetteer of the World. Columbia University Press, Morningside Heights, New York.

Socin, A. (1966). Mittelhochdeutsches Namenbuch. Georg Olms, Hildesheim.

von Volborth, C.-A. (1981). Heraldry: Customs, Rules and Styles. Blandford Press, Poole, Dorsetshire.

Woolf, H. B. (1936). The Old Germanic Principles of Name-Giving. John's Hopkins, Baltimore Maryland.

Woulfe, P. (1967). Sloinnte Gaedeal ir Gall: Irish Names and Surnames. Genealogical Publishing Company, Baltimore, Maryland.

Return to the Minutes list
Return to the main Herald's page
Return to the Caid home page