Minutes of the 12 February 2000 Meeting

[Note: These submissions appear on the Jul 2000 LoAR]

Notes and Announcements

The meeting was called to order at 11:30.

Dates for future meetings 19 March, 9 April, 7 May.

Crescent went over the preferred answers to the diagnostic exam administered at the January meeting.

James of the Lake notes that since Caid has claimed South America, Ceremonies of Possession in Europe's Conquest of the New World 1492-1640 (Patricia Seed, Cambridge University Press, 1995, ISBN 0-521-49757-4) is an in-print book of interest.

Dietmar has a copy of a book (Die Minnesinger in Bildern der Manessischen Handschrift) showing plates from the Manessa Codex which dates from the early 1300s. This reproduction has some twenty plates of tourney scenes (including the Minnesanger) and their heraldry which may be of interest to heralds.

Estrella has set up a 20x20 pavillion for consulting heraldry. Please bring chairs if you are consulting. Golden Wing notes that there will be a herald's party Friday evening; all heralds of any rank are welcome. Bring your own whatever.

Submissions considered

Calafia, Barony of

Calafia, Barony of; The Order of the Serpent's Fang (Appeal of Laurel Return)

Name:

The order name was returned by Laurel on the LoAR of 14 November 1999 which stated "No evidence was presented that fang meant 'tooth' in period. Barring conflict, the Order of the Serpents Tooth would be acceptable."

While acknowledging that the specific meaning of fang associated with the venemous tooth of a serpent is post-period, the submitters point out that the meaning canine tooth, tusk, teeth of dogs, wolves or other animals remarkable for strength of jaw dates to 1555 according to the OED (sub fang); this provides the requisite evidence that the meaning "tooth" is in fact period.

The submitters also incidentally note that the meaning "that which is caught or taken; booty, plunder, spoil" is dated to 1026 by the OED (sub "fang").

APPEAL SENT TO LAUREL WITH THE SUPPORT OF THE CAIDAN COLLEGE

Gráinne O' Donnchadha (New primary name)

Name:

"Gráinne" is found on p. 114 of O'Corráin & McGuire. "O' Donnchada" is found on p. 86 of MacLysaght.

Submitter wishes her name to authentic for 1000 Irish.

"Grainne inghean Donnchadha" was registered Dec 98 via Artemesia; this is in conflict, and so this submission must be returned.

NAME RETURNED FOR CONFLICT

Pádraic Amadan (New name)

Name:

Pádraic is fouund in Woulfe on pg. 196 under the heading of the same spelling. Amadan is found in Derick Thomson's The New English/Gaelic Dictionary pg. 67 with the noted meaning being "the fool" or "the simpleton" It is also found in Malcolm MacLennan's Gaelic Dictionary on pg. 11. Originally submitted as Padráic an Amadan we have removed the word an from the name as we note that it was a rarely used article in the formation of Gaelic names.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Dun Or, Barony of

Ciar inghean uí Mhaioldeirg (Device resubmission Laurel)

Vert, a stag statant at gaze and between its attires a roundel argent

Name:

registered by Laurel December 1999

Device:

The previous device submission, Per chevron throughout argent and vert, a stag statant at gaze argent was returned by Laurel at the same meeting for conflict with the arms of Gianni Arcieri, Per fess azure and bendy sable and argent, a stag at gaze argent.

We cite the arms of Fowbery, Vert, a buck argent, in the dexter chief a crescent for difference, and the arms of Enright, Vert, a hart statant at gaze argent both on pg. 59 of Papsworth. We find neither to be important enough to protect.

DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Gyldenholt, Barony of

Alric Rolf von Merzig (Device resubmission; Kingdom return)

Per fess Or and paly sable and Or, a ferret rampant contourny sable

Name:

approved at the Caidan chapter meeting of January 2000

Device:

The original submission was returned for redraw, as the ferret's posture was an unacceptable mixture of rampant, salient, and passant. This redraw, in addition to making the ferret contourny, attempts to make the ferret clearly rampant. Noting that Mistress Eowyn's research indicates that late in period the rampant posture was drawn with a significant diagonal orientation, Crescent considers the redraw acceptable.

However, there is a conflict with [Fieldless] a rat sejant erect to sinister sable, tailed Or (Gwendolyn the Rat Keeper, Jul 81). There is one CD for the fieldless to this field, however, the second CD must come from the charge, and Crescent does not consider there to be a CD between the two types of rodents. Specifically, RFS X.4.e indicates that for charges not used in period armory, there must be a significant difference in the shape of the two charges in normal depiction.

DEVICE RETURNED FOR CONFLICT

Catheryn Cameron Stewart Morgan (New badge)

[Fieldless] On an eight petaled rose alternating azure and argent barbed vert an eight pointed mullet sable

Name:

registered by Laurel in June 1984 via the East Kingdom

Badge:

We note that this badge does not violate the rule of tincture, however it seriously violates the rule of contrast, more specifically RfS. VIII.2.b.ii - Contrast Requirements - A charge must have good contrast with any charge placed wholly on it.

DEVICE RETURNED FOR LACK OF CONTRAST

Heatherwyne, Shire of

Judwiga Czarna Pika Ze Domu Radziwill Ze Smokza Jamy (New name change)

Name:

This is a name change from currently held name "Judwiga Czarna Pika Ze Smokza Jamy" registered by Laurel August 1999. The submitter believes that Ze Domu is Polish for "house of" or "from the house of". The submitter provides documentation for Radziwill from page 412 of Polish Surnames Origins and Meanings by William Hoffman. However, it is also found in Webster's Biographical Dictionary on pg. 1229 cited as a Lithuanian-Polish family raised to rank of Princes of the realm in the 16th century. Therefore, it is claiming an association.

NAME RETURNED FOR PRESUMPTION

Naevehjem, Barony of

Hob Calvin (New device)

Vert, on a plate a paw-print vert

Device:

This conflicts with Vert, on a plate a swan naiant couped on the fess line sable (Anne of the Golden Mantle, Jul 81) and so must be returned.

DEVICE RETURNED FOR CONFLICT

Lina Valentine (New name)

Name:

Lina is found in Talan Gwyneck's article Feminine Given Names in a Dictionary of English Surname from the Trimaris KWHS compilation, with the given examples Lina dated to 1181 and 1195. The given name is also found in Reany and Wilson on pg. 280 under the heading Line with a citation to 1181. Valentine is found in Reany and Wilson on pg. 464 under the heading Valentin with the given example Mathilda Valentyn (c. 1251).

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Nichola de Lyne (New name and device)

Gules, three gouttes in bend Or

Name:

Nichola is found in Talan Gwyneck's article Feminine Given Names in a Dictionary of English Surname from the Trimaris KWHS compilation, pg. 105, with the given example Nichola Pepperday (c. 1403). The given name is also found on pg 346 of Reaney and Wilson under the headding Pepperday. De Lyne is documented form Black, pg. 446, under the heading Lyne, with the given example Wautier de Lyne (c. 1296).

Device:

We cite the arms of Harbottle, Azure, three gouttes in bend Or, pg. 898 in Papsworth. We do not believe that these arms are important enough to protect.

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Cragdon on the Water, Canton of (Naevehjem)

Ana ingen uí Riagáin (New name)

Name:

Ana is found in O'Corrain and Maguire's on pg. 22 under the heading Anu citing Saint Ana as an example. Inghean uí is believed to be Irish Gaelic meaning "daughter of an ancestor of...". Riagáin is found in Woulfe, pg. 631 under the heading Ó Riagáin. It is also found in MacLysaght without the accent over the second a on pg. 256 under the heading (O) Regan.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Gavinus Lupus (New name and device)

Per bend azure and vert, a hawk's head erased and a wolf's head erased argent

Name:

"Gavinus" is dated to 633 by Withycombe (sub Gawain). "Lupus" is Latin for "the wolf", intended as an epithet (submitter provides no evidence). "Lupus" also appears in Lempriere as a name dated to the reign of Severius. It is not clear from the Lempriere reference whether the name is a praenomen or cognomen, but in either case it should be acceptable as a byname. There is also a Saint Lupus of Troyes, who died 478, listed in Farmer (the Oxford Dictionary of Saints).

Device:

There was some discussion of how to blazon the position of the two charges, which are in bend sinister. While this position is not forced by the field tinctures, this is the default arrangement for charges on this type of divided field; Crescent therefore elects not to blazon the position. The charge in chief is a hawk's head since it does not have the eagle's distinctive tuft.

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Wintermist, Shire of

Marguerite le Swan (Administrative - release of name and device)

Argent, a swan naiant wings elevated and addorsed purpure

Name:

The name and device were registered by Laurel in January 1996.

REQUEST APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

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