[Note: These submissions appear on the Mar 2001 LoAR]
Crescent called the meeting to order at 11 a.m. He proposes that the next meetings be held on October 15, November 5, and December 17. Crown is next Weekend.
Get submissions to Eridana for the Collegium. Her e-mail is [contact info cuppressed], and she needs to have them in her hands by September 30, one week before the event. You may also snail-mail her at [address suppressed].
Please sign in and list full name and address so that the College's roster may be updated.
No Letter of acceptance and Return has been received since the last meeting.
Per bend vert and argent, a sun-cross argent and an anchor sable
NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
Guinevere of Altavia = holding name of March 2000 LoAR
On her LoAR of March 2000, Laurel Sovereign of Arms returned the name Guinevere of Lyonesse (with the accompanying armory registered under the holding name Guinevere of Altavia). The explanation given by Laurel consisted of a single sentence
"Lyonesse exists only in legend and is thus not a place anyone would describe themselves as being from." (EAR, LoAR of March 2000, p.12)
The explanation was terse, but we believe we understand the rationale
behind it. That rationale seems to contain at least three assumptions on
Laurel's part
-- that Lyonesse was considered to exist only in legend;
-- that no one in period would describe themselves as being from a place
described in legend;
-- and that SCA persona may not describe themselves as being from a place
described in legend.
This appeal rebuts all three of these points.
Taking the points in order First, it's true that Lyonesse is best known from its part in the stories of King Arthur. Malory's work le Morte Darthur, 1470, is perhaps the most famous example, devoting an entire section (the Eighth Book) to the saga of Sir Tristram of Lyonesse. But the Arthurian stories included many places that the writers considered real, and this included Lyonesse. It was considered a historical land in period writings
"Early English chronicles, such as the Chronicon e chronicis of Florence of Worcester, who died in 1118, described minutely and without a suggestion of disbelief the flourishing state of Lyonesse, and its sudden disappearance beneath the sea." (Encyclopedia Britannica, 1911 ed., vol.xvii, p.174)
It has also been suggested that the original versions of Tristram and Lyonesse came not from Cornwall, but from Scotland. The name Tristram derives from Drust or Drystan, which is "of probable Pictish origin" (Minary & Moorman, An Arthurian Dictionary, 1990, pp.44, 110). W.J. Watson's History of the Celtic Place-Names of Scotland, 1986, p.103 (in the entry on Lothian), suggests that Lyonesse is a variant of Lothian, derived from the Latinized Lodonesia through the Norman-French Leones, Leoneis. This is supported by Johnston's Place-Names of Scotland, 3rd ed., 1934, p.243 (in its entry on Lothian), which cites the spellings Lodonesia c.1145 and Loeneis from 1158. When the Tristram stories were linked with the Arthurian cycle, the real land of Leonais-Leonnys-Liones-Lyonesse became associated with the legendary lost land off the Cornish coast.
However derived and applied, the name itself thus appears to have been real; and while the land described as having sunk off Cornwall may or may not have actually existed, there's no doubt that, in period, it was considered to have been historical, not mythical.
The second point, that no one in period would have described themselves as having been from a legendary place, is likewise flawed. Counter-examples may be found in period England. Reaney & Wilson's Dictionary of English Surnames, 3rd ed., rev.1997, p.102 (in the entry on Cockayne), lists the names Hawisa de Cokaingne, 1219, and Geoffrey de Cokaygne, 1228, where Cockaigne is
"...the name of an imaginary country, the abode of luxury and idleness. ... The surname was probably given to one whose habits and manner of life suggested he had come from the fabulous land of Cockaigne."
With specific examples in hand, one cannot flatly declare that legendary lands were never used in period names.
The third point is the most telling. The Society has a very long history of using the Arthurian cycle as a source for SCA names. Nothing in the current Rules for Submission, or in the precedents of the College of Arms, suggests a break from that policy. The Rules explicitly state that
"...name elements, whether invented by the submitter or borrowed from a literary source, may be used if they follow the rules for name formation from a linguistic tradition compatible with the domain of the Society and the name elements used." (Rule II.3, emphasis mine)
There is not a hint that the Arthurian cycle, the Matter of Britain, is incompatible with the domain of the Society.
The only Rule that might forbid a place name from Arthurian legend is Rule VI.2, which forbids SCA names that imply non-mortal status. This policy, too, has been in place for a very long time
"The Rule of the College is that a place name must be a place primarily inhabited by ordinary mortals, not a place where occasionally a mortal was invited to visit. I point out that Dante visited Hades and Arthur dwells on Avalon, and yet neither is acceptable." (WvS, LoAR, 16 Sept 80, p.7)
"It is the consensus of the College of Arms that we continue to allow the use of names and place names from fiction and mythology. So be it. The fantasy source must be compatible with our period. A culture with post-sixteenth century technology is not compatible. The fiction must be about a place where mortals dwelled and the name or place must not violate the prohibition against claiming to be non-mortal." (WvS, LoAR cover letter, 20 Oct 80, p.2)
But Lyonesse isn't in the same category as Avalon. It was indeed a place where ordinary humans dwelt, before it was swallowed by the sea. Sir Tristram of Lyonesse, though he was sometimes forced to deal with magic (as were many of Arthur's knights), was purely mortal.
I can find no subsequent precedent that has disallowed names from the Arthurian cycle, simply because they were from the Arthurian cycle. Quite the contrary prior Laurels explicitly allowed such names, including Lyonesse
"A few commentors had twitches about 'vanished Leonesse' as a possibly nonhuman land. However, in the Arthurian corpus it is clear that Lyonesse is very much a human land, the kingdom of Tristram who is nephew of Mark of Cornwall and adjacent to his lands. In point of fact the land associated with Lyonesse in popular Cornish legend is the land around the Scilly Isles and there is, as Pale noted, considerable evidence that this islands may have been linked by a land bridge as late as the fourth century so that the 'sinking of Lyonesse' would be within the quasihistorical folk memory when the earliest Arthurian accounts were written." (AmCoE, LoAR of March 90, re Aislinn of Leioness)
"Given the use in period of many names from Arthurian, we find the use of an undocumented name of a significant character whose name appears in period Arthurian literature in this form acceptable." (JoA, LoAR of July 96, re Agravaine Rhiwallon)
"However, names from period literature may be used, with some caveats.
- Try other sources first - often better documentation can be found.
- It has to be a name of a human being in the story. God/dess, elf, dwarf, etc. names aren't usable.
- Beware of allegorical names in sources such as the English mystery plays. It is extremely unlikely that we would register Everyman as a name, even though it is found as a name of a human being in period mystery plays, unless actual documentation is found for it as a name for a real person.
- And this is subjective - minor characters from minor works may or may not be acceptable. Especially if they do not fit the naming patterns of the time period." (JoA, LoAR cover letter of 28 Feb 99)
(Anent these caveats, we tried #1, but found no other sources for Lyonesse than those already cited; #2 doesn't apply to place-names, but by extension, would allow lands of human habitation, which includes Lyonesse; Lyonesse is not allegorical, so #3 doesn't apply; and since Sir Tristram of Lyonesse is hardly a minor character, and le Morte Darthur hardly a minor work, #4 doesn't apply either.)
To sum up The land of Lyonesse was considered to have been a real place in period, documented in works by period historians, and used by the writers of the Arthurian saga as the home of Sir Tristram. The name Lyonesse itself looks to be derived from the known placename Lothian. Even if Lyonesse were purely legendary, we have examples of real persons using legendary placenames in period. And even if both of these points are disregarded, the Rules for Submission specifically permit placenames taken from legend (under restrictions that don't apply to this submission), and decades of Society practice and College precedent - reaffirmed as recently as last year - support the policy. Therefore, Laurel's return of the name Guinevere of Lyonesse was without foundation, being contrary to the Rules for Submission, to long-standing Society usage, and to period naming practice. We ask that the decision be reversed, and that the name of Guinevere of Lyonesse be registered.
NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
[Fieldless] A raven striking maintaining in its claws a spur-rowel sable
BADGE RETURNED FOR CONFLICT
Faust is from Dauzat, page 249, which according to the author can be a baptismal name from the St. Faustus. le is the French singular article.
Fuzier is an occupational byname meaning "someone who sells fuseaus [a type of spindle or lace bobbin]", found in Dauzat, page 272, under "Fuzelier". We are not sure if the definite article can be used with the metonymic and rely on the College's wisdom on the issue. The submitter will accept the name "Faust Fuzier" if necessary.
NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
Purpure, on a chevron between three Bengal tigers' heads cabossed argent marked sable, three thistles palewise proper
NAME (AS CORRECTED) AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
NAME RETURNED FOR CONFLICT
Change from Tighearnán ó Seaghdha registered by Laurel in March 2000
The submitter's name "Tighearnán ó Seaghdha" was, changed from the submitted form "Tiarnán ua Séaghdha", noting that "the documentation for "Tiarnán marks it as a form only found in the 20th century" (and other comments). The submitter wants to change his registered name to "Tiarnan O'Shea", taking advantage of Laurel's policy of no-fee changes to registered forms when significant changes were made to register the name. "Tiarnan" is found in [Woulfe, p. 31], and in [OCM, p.170], and is discussed in an Academy of St. Gabriel report (attached to the submission), which supports a variant spelling "Tiernan" as the most common 14th Century Scots spelling of the given name (the report is for the name "Tiarnan MacPhelean O'Neill"). The submitter recognizes that the form "Tiernan" (reported by St. Gabriel as appropriate for 14th C. Scots) or "Tigernán" (which St. Gabriel says is the Gaelic equivalent) would be more authentic, but would prefer the spelling "Tiarnan" if possible. We note that the submitter's desired spelling is a one letter variation from the form St. Gabriel proposes. "(ó) Shea" is found in under "Shaw" [Reaney & Wilson, p. 404] and is an undated header spelling [ibid, p 332], dating the form "Shea" to 1584 with a note that this also stands for "O'Shea". "(ó) Shea" is also found in [McLysaght, 269] as an Anglicized form.
NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
Sable, in pale a woman's head couped and two cannon mounted on ships' carriages, barrels crossed in saltire, a bordure argent
The device was returned at kingdom's chapter of May 00 for lack of documentation of the period nature of the cannon [carriage] as drawn. The submitter provides copies of web pages (http://www.vasamuseet.se/skeppet/krigsskepp/warship.html, and http://www.maryrose.org/ship/armament1.htm) providing pictures of period ship's cannon from the Vasa (sank in 1628) and the Mary Rose (ca. 1512). The emblazons found on this armory are significantly simplified from these pictures, but show a grossly similar carriage consisting of an approximately rectangular carriage supported on small wheels; the cannon itself is extremely simplified, and is missing the lifting rings at the trunnions (which are clearly shown in the example from the Vasa but are not apparent in the example from the Mary Rose) and tailpiece at the "breech" end (since these are muzzle-loaders, there is no breech, per se.), found on both examples. Overall, however, this depiction appears a reasonable simplification/stylization of the carriage and cannon for use in heraldry.
There was discussion concerning whether or not the charges might not be identifiable from a distance but Crescent feels they are reasonably identifiable as ship's cannons.
DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
Sable, two cannon mounted on ships' carriages, barrels crossed in saltire, argent
The badge was returned at kingdom's chapter of May 00 for lack of documentation of the period nature of the cannon [carriage] as drawn. The submitter provides copies of web pages http://www.vasamuseet.se/skeppet/krigsskepp/warship.html, and http://www.maryrose.org/ship/armament1.htm) providing pictures of period ship's cannon from the Vasa (sank in 1628) and the Mary Rose (ca. 1512). The emblazons found on this armory are significantly simplified from these pictures, but show a grossly similar carriage consisting of an approximately rectangular carriage supported on small wheels; the cannon itself is extremely simplified, and is missing the lifting rings at the trunnions (which are clearly shown in the example from the Vasa but are not apparent in the example from the Mary Rose) and tailpiece at the "breech" end (since these are muzzle-loaders, there is no breech, per se.), found on both examples. Overall, however, this depiction appears a reasonable simplification/stylization of the carriage and cannon for use in heraldry.
There was discussion concerning whether or not the charges might not be identifiable from a distance but Crescent feels they are reasonably identifiable as ship's cannons.
BADGE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
NAME APPROVED AS CHANGED AND SENT TO LAUREL
Azure, on a pale sable fimbriated and endorsed, three crescents argent
DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
[Fieldless] A cross clechy sable, the crossbar draped of a cloth argent
BADGE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
Or, a swan sable and, on a chief gules, three suns Or
DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
Except for putting away books, the meeting ended at 3:15. Minutes edited by Selene, Eridonna, James and Crescent.
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